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	<title>Comments for Women's Space</title>
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	<description>BLOGGING THE LONGEST REVOLUTION</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Victory in Norway!  Norwegian Parliament Outlaws the Buying of Sex by Satsuma</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/20/victory-in-norway-norwegian-parliament-outlaws-the-buying-of-sex/#comment-20740</link>
		<dc:creator>Satsuma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2075#comment-20740</guid>
		<description>Norway hoo-ray!!  Great victory for all women!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norway hoo-ray!!  Great victory for all women!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Condoleeza Rice Signs On to UN Campaign to Fight Violence Against Women by Judy Best</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/19/condoleeza-rice-signs-on-to-un-campaign-to-fight-violence-against-women/#comment-20737</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Best</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2072#comment-20737</guid>
		<description>Charlize Theron is joining the UN fight against femicide and rape, too, after famously playing a Goddess (Will Smith's latest hero movie) who steps aside from her divinity after kicking cosmic a**, a factory worker who fights sexual harassment and a raped prostitute who fights back with murder and gets convicted in the Western so-called criminal justice system.    Given the inherent limitations of the role offerings in patriarchy's moviedom, Theron has had the professional experiences to prepare her to understand and work to eliminate the roots of the problem.  Hopefully, the same is true of Rice, and both women in their public spotlight will not waste their time whacking at the branches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlize Theron is joining the UN fight against femicide and rape, too, after famously playing a Goddess (Will Smith&#8217;s latest hero movie) who steps aside from her divinity after kicking cosmic a**, a factory worker who fights sexual harassment and a raped prostitute who fights back with murder and gets convicted in the Western so-called criminal justice system.    Given the inherent limitations of the role offerings in patriarchy&#8217;s moviedom, Theron has had the professional experiences to prepare her to understand and work to eliminate the roots of the problem.  Hopefully, the same is true of Rice, and both women in their public spotlight will not waste their time whacking at the branches.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Condoleeza Rice Signs On to UN Campaign to Fight Violence Against Women by funnie</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/19/condoleeza-rice-signs-on-to-un-campaign-to-fight-violence-against-women/#comment-20736</link>
		<dc:creator>funnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2072#comment-20736</guid>
		<description>I'm not suspicious of her motives. But I am suspicious of her understanding of the problem, which understanding dictates the tactics she would support, and therefore how much help she can be to women. 

Rice negatively discusses the violence done to women in conflict &#38; postconflict environments...but she also strongly believes that women in Afghanistan and Iraq have been served by US intervention and war. 

Rice also advocates for women's rights as a reason to put pressure on foreign governments. I don't disagree with the idea behind that -- women's rights, all human rights, should be an important part of international dialogue and countries should pressure each other to raise the bar -- but I am deeply suspicious of it in practice. Women's rights have been "important" only when castigating a country for failing on that front aligns with US foreign policy and warmaking/"peacekeeping" -- period.  And it would be one thing if that selective-vision of women's rights simply meant that progress were uneven, but what it has actually meant is that there  IS no progress. And women in fact lose out, time and again.

I, too, am encouraged that she brought up the actions of UN peacekeepers. But then, the administration of which she's a part has tended to be much more critical of the UN than the US, when it comes to military action, so maybe her critique of the UN isn't that suprising. Did she mention the woman-abusing habits of the US troops abroad? No. 

I don't think Rice is evil. I think Rice does care about women. And I'm not interested in deriding her for caring about women. But no, I'm also not interested in promoting her initiatives.  Rice is wrong, dead wrong, and that matters.  So, engaging her (constructively) seems like the way forward for feminists, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not suspicious of her motives. But I am suspicious of her understanding of the problem, which understanding dictates the tactics she would support, and therefore how much help she can be to women. </p>
<p>Rice negatively discusses the violence done to women in conflict &amp; postconflict environments&#8230;but she also strongly believes that women in Afghanistan and Iraq have been served by US intervention and war. </p>
<p>Rice also advocates for women&#8217;s rights as a reason to put pressure on foreign governments. I don&#8217;t disagree with the idea behind that &#8212; women&#8217;s rights, all human rights, should be an important part of international dialogue and countries should pressure each other to raise the bar &#8212; but I am deeply suspicious of it in practice. Women&#8217;s rights have been &#8220;important&#8221; only when castigating a country for failing on that front aligns with US foreign policy and warmaking/&#8221;peacekeeping&#8221; &#8212; period.  And it would be one thing if that selective-vision of women&#8217;s rights simply meant that progress were uneven, but what it has actually meant is that there  IS no progress. And women in fact lose out, time and again.</p>
<p>I, too, am encouraged that she brought up the actions of UN peacekeepers. But then, the administration of which she&#8217;s a part has tended to be much more critical of the UN than the US, when it comes to military action, so maybe her critique of the UN isn&#8217;t that suprising. Did she mention the woman-abusing habits of the US troops abroad? No. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Rice is evil. I think Rice does care about women. And I&#8217;m not interested in deriding her for caring about women. But no, I&#8217;m also not interested in promoting her initiatives.  Rice is wrong, dead wrong, and that matters.  So, engaging her (constructively) seems like the way forward for feminists, IMO.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Victory in Norway!  Norwegian Parliament Outlaws the Buying of Sex by Branjor</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/20/victory-in-norway-norwegian-parliament-outlaws-the-buying-of-sex/#comment-20735</link>
		<dc:creator>Branjor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2075#comment-20735</guid>
		<description>Go Norway!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go Norway!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Condoleeza Rice Signs On to UN Campaign to Fight Violence Against Women by Lucinda Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/19/condoleeza-rice-signs-on-to-un-campaign-to-fight-violence-against-women/#comment-20734</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucinda Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2072#comment-20734</guid>
		<description>She is of course welcome in the fight against the seemingly never-ending pandemic of violence against women, but  why oh why has  she done so little for them during her tenure in the Bush Admin and even helped to uphold policies that have been very detrimental  to women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She is of course welcome in the fight against the seemingly never-ending pandemic of violence against women, but  why oh why has  she done so little for them during her tenure in the Bush Admin and even helped to uphold policies that have been very detrimental  to women.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Condoleeza Rice Signs On to UN Campaign to Fight Violence Against Women by Amananta</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/19/condoleeza-rice-signs-on-to-un-campaign-to-fight-violence-against-women/#comment-20733</link>
		<dc:creator>Amananta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2072#comment-20733</guid>
		<description>Despite my political differences with her, I found myself wondering over and over - why didn't McCain pick Rice as a running mate?  If he wanted to go for a woman as his nominee to try to attract disgruntled Clinton supporters, amongst conservative party women, he couldn't have made a better choice. I would have been tempted to vote for them if he had picked her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite my political differences with her, I found myself wondering over and over - why didn&#8217;t McCain pick Rice as a running mate?  If he wanted to go for a woman as his nominee to try to attract disgruntled Clinton supporters, amongst conservative party women, he couldn&#8217;t have made a better choice. I would have been tempted to vote for them if he had picked her.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Exploiter, Murderer, Epic Collector of Images of Children Suffering&#8221; by anuna</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/19/exploiter-murderer-epic-collector-of-images-of-children-suffering/#comment-20732</link>
		<dc:creator>anuna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2073#comment-20732</guid>
		<description>This made me so sick and angry I just had to walk away without commenting the first time I read it. I read the linked article, where it is claimed that this man "understands what he did was wrong." Really? What is that supposed to mean?? He killed two women and brutalized a third. This is how he has lived his whole life. He had many opportunities to stop. Yet as long as he could get away with it, he continued. He has demonstrated by his actions that he has NO understanding that his behavior is wrong. And yet the courts still let the sentences run concurrently, meaning that there's still a possibility he will be back among us before his life ends. I saw where his defense lawyer asserts, in his favor, that he worked for Ford for 30 years. Well, give that man a medal--he may have been a woman-killer, but at least he wasn't unemployed. It boggles my mind.

In a recent murder case in my area, a man named Rafael Robb beat his wife to death with a piece of exercise equipment, three days before Christmas--and hours before she planned to move out. He was sentenced to five to ten years, for "voluntary manslaughter." And the judge said he'd been considering a lighter sentence--before he learned that Robb had written his teenage daughter a letter threatening to withhold her Christmas present unless she sent him her report card and a recent photo. He murdered her mother, yet he still thinks he has a right to tell her what to do. And yet this man, too, supposedly feels remorse.

His lawyer claimed Robb was a "victim" of his wife's depression. Normal when they married, after years of his controlling behavior, she had become a reclusive hoarder who was severely depressed. Man drives wife crazy, then kills her when she tries to leave him. But it was her own fault--because she was "crazy." How often have we heard this scenario? And how can they still claim they're "sorry" when they're still blaming the victim?

Five years--that's what a woman's life is worth. What a great message to send this man's daughter. I'm sorry this comment is such a bummer. I used to live in southeastern Michigan and I've seen a lot of faces like that man's face. It's so horrible to be confronted once again with the fact that I have to live with people like that, and never even know who they are until it's too late. What's even worse than the fact that these two woman-murderers did not ever believe their actions were wrong is the fact that our society does not give them clear messages that they are wrong--either before or after their horrific deeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This made me so sick and angry I just had to walk away without commenting the first time I read it. I read the linked article, where it is claimed that this man &#8220;understands what he did was wrong.&#8221; Really? What is that supposed to mean?? He killed two women and brutalized a third. This is how he has lived his whole life. He had many opportunities to stop. Yet as long as he could get away with it, he continued. He has demonstrated by his actions that he has NO understanding that his behavior is wrong. And yet the courts still let the sentences run concurrently, meaning that there&#8217;s still a possibility he will be back among us before his life ends. I saw where his defense lawyer asserts, in his favor, that he worked for Ford for 30 years. Well, give that man a medal&#8211;he may have been a woman-killer, but at least he wasn&#8217;t unemployed. It boggles my mind.</p>
<p>In a recent murder case in my area, a man named Rafael Robb beat his wife to death with a piece of exercise equipment, three days before Christmas&#8211;and hours before she planned to move out. He was sentenced to five to ten years, for &#8220;voluntary manslaughter.&#8221; And the judge said he&#8217;d been considering a lighter sentence&#8211;before he learned that Robb had written his teenage daughter a letter threatening to withhold her Christmas present unless she sent him her report card and a recent photo. He murdered her mother, yet he still thinks he has a right to tell her what to do. And yet this man, too, supposedly feels remorse.</p>
<p>His lawyer claimed Robb was a &#8220;victim&#8221; of his wife&#8217;s depression. Normal when they married, after years of his controlling behavior, she had become a reclusive hoarder who was severely depressed. Man drives wife crazy, then kills her when she tries to leave him. But it was her own fault&#8211;because she was &#8220;crazy.&#8221; How often have we heard this scenario? And how can they still claim they&#8217;re &#8220;sorry&#8221; when they&#8217;re still blaming the victim?</p>
<p>Five years&#8211;that&#8217;s what a woman&#8217;s life is worth. What a great message to send this man&#8217;s daughter. I&#8217;m sorry this comment is such a bummer. I used to live in southeastern Michigan and I&#8217;ve seen a lot of faces like that man&#8217;s face. It&#8217;s so horrible to be confronted once again with the fact that I have to live with people like that, and never even know who they are until it&#8217;s too late. What&#8217;s even worse than the fact that these two woman-murderers did not ever believe their actions were wrong is the fact that our society does not give them clear messages that they are wrong&#8211;either before or after their horrific deeds.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Victory in Norway!  Norwegian Parliament Outlaws the Buying of Sex by Gayle</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/20/victory-in-norway-norwegian-parliament-outlaws-the-buying-of-sex/#comment-20731</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2075#comment-20731</guid>
		<description>Wow!  That's great news!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  That&#8217;s great news!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Victory in Norway!  Norwegian Parliament Outlaws the Buying of Sex by Sis</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/20/victory-in-norway-norwegian-parliament-outlaws-the-buying-of-sex/#comment-20728</link>
		<dc:creator>Sis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2075#comment-20728</guid>
		<description>Yay! Norway rocks. 

What a campaign that must have been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yay! Norway rocks. </p>
<p>What a campaign that must have been.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New UK Law Will Criminalize Men Who Pay for Sex with Pimped or Trafficked Women, Could Be Charged with Rape, Could Face Life by JENNIFER DREW</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/11/19/new-uk-law-will-criminalize-men-who-pay-for-sex-with-pimped-or-trafficked-women-could-be-charged-with-rape-could-face-life/#comment-20725</link>
		<dc:creator>JENNIFER DREW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=2070#comment-20725</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately the UK government's proposals in respect of prostitution do not criminalise men who buy women's and girls' bodies for the purpose of male sexual exploitation.  Instead, the UK government has once again decided to adopt a half-hearted approach which is designed to appease men who fuel the demand in female sexual slavery whilst simultaneously claiming 'yes we the government are doing something about women's right  not to be reduced to   a commercial sexual product.'   Proving a prostituted woman was being controlled by a pimp or brothel owner will be very hard to prove.  

Why not simply adopt the swedish model and criminalise all individuals which means it will target male Johns and send a very strong message that yes, women are human too and no women are not men's sex slaves.  Jacqui Smith claims she had to take into account the numbers of women who 'choose' to work in prostitution but this ignores overwhelming evidence that prostitution exists because it reinforces male supremacy and one of the reasons for the rise in prostitution is due to the commercialisation of the so-called sex industry.  Enormous profits are made by companies and individuals who are not directly involved in prostitution.    On the issue of 'choice' there is no such thing as 'free and autonomous choice' when it is men demanding and expecting to have the right to masturbate into women's and girls' bodies.  The same excuses were used when first wave feminists targetted prostitution and these same excuses and justifications still abound.  Bottom line is challenging male demand goes right to the root of male supremacy and domination over all women.  Norway has taken a bold and right step in announcing it will criminalise all individuals (read men) who buy women for the purpose of male sexual gratification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately the UK government&#8217;s proposals in respect of prostitution do not criminalise men who buy women&#8217;s and girls&#8217; bodies for the purpose of male sexual exploitation.  Instead, the UK government has once again decided to adopt a half-hearted approach which is designed to appease men who fuel the demand in female sexual slavery whilst simultaneously claiming &#8216;yes we the government are doing something about women&#8217;s right  not to be reduced to   a commercial sexual product.&#8217;   Proving a prostituted woman was being controlled by a pimp or brothel owner will be very hard to prove.  </p>
<p>Why not simply adopt the swedish model and criminalise all individuals which means it will target male Johns and send a very strong message that yes, women are human too and no women are not men&#8217;s sex slaves.  Jacqui Smith claims she had to take into account the numbers of women who &#8216;choose&#8217; to work in prostitution but this ignores overwhelming evidence that prostitution exists because it reinforces male supremacy and one of the reasons for the rise in prostitution is due to the commercialisation of the so-called sex industry.  Enormous profits are made by companies and individuals who are not directly involved in prostitution.    On the issue of &#8216;choice&#8217; there is no such thing as &#8216;free and autonomous choice&#8217; when it is men demanding and expecting to have the right to masturbate into women&#8217;s and girls&#8217; bodies.  The same excuses were used when first wave feminists targetted prostitution and these same excuses and justifications still abound.  Bottom line is challenging male demand goes right to the root of male supremacy and domination over all women.  Norway has taken a bold and right step in announcing it will criminalise all individuals (read men) who buy women for the purpose of male sexual gratification.</p>
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