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	<title>Comments on: 2008 Presidential Election:  Had Enough?</title>
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	<description>BLOGGING THE LONGEST REVOLUTION</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/869f7e086d9af41.png" alt="Sis Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Sis</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18635</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ahhh the knives are already out, on the left and on the right: her experience is--she's a beauty queen. The child born in April with Down Sydrome--it was her daughter's. Her sister and the allegation against sister's battering cop husband--lies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh the knives are already out, on the left and on the right: her experience is&#8211;she&#8217;s a beauty queen. The child born in April with Down Sydrome&#8211;it was her daughter&#8217;s. Her sister and the allegation against sister&#8217;s battering cop husband&#8211;lies.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/869f7e086d9af41.png" alt="Sis Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Sis</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18631</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/869f7e086d9af41.png" alt="Sis Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Sis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18631</guid>
		<description>Palin is amazing, if you read her bio, and her husband and children are aboriginal; Yupik Inuit. An aboriginal in the White House!?

Everyone hunts, fishes, rides snowmobiles, and works for the oil industry in the north. Palin knows how dependent the north is on resource extraction, but she's also aware global warming is very real. She's found a way down the middle that satisfies, for now: She's nailed the oil industry with taxes (something even Canadian politicians haven't done), and pushed an oil pipeline through Canada to move Alaska crude to Texas refineries. Based on that alone, the oil industry will be lobbying for her. It's a done deal for McCain with her as his VP, even if she wasn't a far better citizen and more ethical politician than Clinton. 

Two things about her one hopes were different: she's anti-abortion, and some say, anti some gay rights: no to marriage, but yes to civil rights. 

I hate the male left so much I'd vote Republican if I was American, but I don't think, from reading at Reclusive Leftist, that PUMAs are voting McCain. They're voting Green or (still possible?) writing Clinton in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palin is amazing, if you read her bio, and her husband and children are aboriginal; Yupik Inuit. An aboriginal in the White House!?</p>
<p>Everyone hunts, fishes, rides snowmobiles, and works for the oil industry in the north. Palin knows how dependent the north is on resource extraction, but she&#8217;s also aware global warming is very real. She&#8217;s found a way down the middle that satisfies, for now: She&#8217;s nailed the oil industry with taxes (something even Canadian politicians haven&#8217;t done), and pushed an oil pipeline through Canada to move Alaska crude to Texas refineries. Based on that alone, the oil industry will be lobbying for her. It&#8217;s a done deal for McCain with her as his VP, even if she wasn&#8217;t a far better citizen and more ethical politician than Clinton. </p>
<p>Two things about her one hopes were different: she&#8217;s anti-abortion, and some say, anti some gay rights: no to marriage, but yes to civil rights. </p>
<p>I hate the male left so much I&#8217;d vote Republican if I was American, but I don&#8217;t think, from reading at Reclusive Leftist, that PUMAs are voting McCain. They&#8217;re voting Green or (still possible?) writing Clinton in.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/fa7d9b32c5d6eee.png" alt="Aletha Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Aletha</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18621</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/fa7d9b32c5d6eee.png" alt="Aletha Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Aletha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I read your comment, Satsuma, yelling about how shocked you were at feminists attacking Senator Clinton. Some of us have had enough of her party. At least in my case, it was not personal. I would not support any Democrat, not when we have a better alternative. Are you a PUMA, Satsuma? Will you vote for the ticket with the woman you think has a chance to win, despite her politics? 

I also commented on that blog, on an earlier entry, citing the 14th Amendment in response to a clueless man saying the ERA was a plot to enforce a different morality on men like him. Ms. Feldt asked me to elaborate on how Republicans sold feminists out, so I just did some ranting of my own over there. The word male occurs three times in that amendment, to make sure women could not vote or claim rights granted to black men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read your comment, Satsuma, yelling about how shocked you were at feminists attacking Senator Clinton. Some of us have had enough of her party. At least in my case, it was not personal. I would not support any Democrat, not when we have a better alternative. Are you a PUMA, Satsuma? Will you vote for the ticket with the woman you think has a chance to win, despite her politics? </p>
<p>I also commented on that blog, on an earlier entry, citing the 14th Amendment in response to a clueless man saying the ERA was a plot to enforce a different morality on men like him. Ms. Feldt asked me to elaborate on how Republicans sold feminists out, so I just did some ranting of my own over there. The word male occurs three times in that amendment, to make sure women could not vote or claim rights granted to black men.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/5695546e456af0b.png" alt="Satsuma Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Satsuma</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18618</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/5695546e456af0b.png" alt="Satsuma Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Satsuma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18618</guid>
		<description>Yes indeed, there is “growing” dissatisfaction over the way Obama rejected the dream team.  Love it how these straight men seem to overlook the idea of dream and team when women are in the equation.
Aletha’s comments about this are right on, and I went to Gloria Feld’s blog and enjoyed her article thoroughly.  Even decided to coment.
 I don’t know why straight feministsthink that lesbians are all that enamoured of “reproductive issues.”  I’ve never felt much for this obsession over abortion and birth control, and I was more the jobs and money type of feminist.  I also believe that women waste time in relationships with men to begin with, and that unless women do really radical things we’ll be held hostage over the abortion issue forever.
In solidarity with straight women, I do try to get as many competant women elected to offices as possible.  As long as they aren’t raving anti-lesbian maniacs I’m ok with most women, and all the complexity of women and ideas.  I want women breaking job barriers all the time, because I know that once a barrier is broken, more women get in.  That’s how it works.
Obama made sure that a woman didn’t get in.  He didn’t give a damn that Hillary Clinton damn near won, and he doesn’t understand the Hillary voters at all really.  He doesn’t connect with me that’s for sure.  I never trusted yet another slick charismatic man, and perhaps it’s because this kind of “male charm” means nothing to me as a lesbian.  Most men I come in contact with in the business world NEVER try to charm or flatter me, they know better.  Obama could have had those 18,000,000 votes, he could have fired up his side and Hillary’s millions!  He could have had it all.
To me, that does prove his inexperience, and it does prove a kind of contempt that these Boomer/Gen X borderline men have towards the hard working groundbreaking feminist women like Hillary. 
Liberals hold out their sickening and patronizing carrots– oh we support lesbians and gays visiting each other in hospitals, oh how great we are!!  We think only our sacred straight “marriages” are worth enshrining and crowing about.  Your relationships are worthless and we don’t care about you.  That’s what I get from all of them.  So I’m not just picking on Obama here, they all do it.
What gets me is that he so arrogantly thought the Hillary Democratic women just would fall into line and “get over it.”  Yeah, men always want women to get over it don’t they, and they grab the top job yet again.  How many women here who have solid credentials have been passed up for promotions and raises?  How many incompetant male managers have we had to deal with, when we knew women in the office were a million times better?  That’s my history!
But on a happy note, I am ecstatic that a woman was chosen to run as VP.  I’m smiling ear to ear, because this weekend is also an extraordinary anniversary for me.  Today, my partner and I celebrate 33 years together.  It was on Labor Day Weekend that we first met and had dinner in college.  1975 was a year like no other.
It was a time when there were no gay or lesbian groups at all, and women were harassed in classrooms, and feminism was gaining power.  Back then I was majoring in political science and working on some of the first campaigns women were running for congress and state attorney general.  I met them all and worked for them all.
My partner and I carved out a life for ourselves without the help of anyone back then.  We dreamed of an Amazon world, we suffered the unbelivable sexism and homophobia that was routine back then.  We prevailed over all the odds, and guess what, without any legal support, social support or institutional support, we had a better “marriage” than most of the straight people out there.  Despite everything, we became our own creative dream team.
We had faith that women would come together, we’d work so that our time would come.  Then after many years of taking care of my extremely sick partner, I came once again to the feminist blogs, and was shocked that they were dissing Hillary and supporting a god damn man for president!  What the hell happened out there?  Where have I been?  Rip van Winkle is what it felt like.  Feminists for goddess sake were backing men for high office–maybe not on this blog, but you know what I’m saying here.
Dream team?  Beware – the team is about a male only team.  Conservative old fashioned aging McCain comes out of nowhere with this surprising pick.  Is Sarah Palin the prefect choice.  No absolutely not, but one thing I know as a woman, that once one woman gets into office others follow, both good, bad and average.  Feminists had a chance with Hillary, and she just wasn’t good enogh.
Years ago my partner and I speculated that women would choose a conservative women for high office, like Margaret Thatcher.  Feminist women were too busy infighting to support and close the deal for even a liberal woman candidate.  The feminist movement made it possible for all women to run for office, both liberal and conservative.  We can take credit for opening all the doors, even if it hurts.  That is the irony of history.
Now let’s see how Obama has to struggle for millions of women’s votes now.  Biden having to talk about women!  Even Chris evil Matthews the other day scolded Pat Buchannon for using the term “girl” and “gal” when referring to Gov. Palin.  Imagine that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes indeed, there is “growing” dissatisfaction over the way Obama rejected the dream team.  Love it how these straight men seem to overlook the idea of dream and team when women are in the equation.<br />
Aletha’s comments about this are right on, and I went to Gloria Feld’s blog and enjoyed her article thoroughly.  Even decided to coment.<br />
 I don’t know why straight feministsthink that lesbians are all that enamoured of “reproductive issues.”  I’ve never felt much for this obsession over abortion and birth control, and I was more the jobs and money type of feminist.  I also believe that women waste time in relationships with men to begin with, and that unless women do really radical things we’ll be held hostage over the abortion issue forever.<br />
In solidarity with straight women, I do try to get as many competant women elected to offices as possible.  As long as they aren’t raving anti-lesbian maniacs I’m ok with most women, and all the complexity of women and ideas.  I want women breaking job barriers all the time, because I know that once a barrier is broken, more women get in.  That’s how it works.<br />
Obama made sure that a woman didn’t get in.  He didn’t give a damn that Hillary Clinton damn near won, and he doesn’t understand the Hillary voters at all really.  He doesn’t connect with me that’s for sure.  I never trusted yet another slick charismatic man, and perhaps it’s because this kind of “male charm” means nothing to me as a lesbian.  Most men I come in contact with in the business world NEVER try to charm or flatter me, they know better.  Obama could have had those 18,000,000 votes, he could have fired up his side and Hillary’s millions!  He could have had it all.<br />
To me, that does prove his inexperience, and it does prove a kind of contempt that these Boomer/Gen X borderline men have towards the hard working groundbreaking feminist women like Hillary. <br />
Liberals hold out their sickening and patronizing carrots– oh we support lesbians and gays visiting each other in hospitals, oh how great we are!!  We think only our sacred straight “marriages” are worth enshrining and crowing about.  Your relationships are worthless and we don’t care about you.  That’s what I get from all of them.  So I’m not just picking on Obama here, they all do it.<br />
What gets me is that he so arrogantly thought the Hillary Democratic women just would fall into line and “get over it.”  Yeah, men always want women to get over it don’t they, and they grab the top job yet again.  How many women here who have solid credentials have been passed up for promotions and raises?  How many incompetant male managers have we had to deal with, when we knew women in the office were a million times better?  That’s my history!<br />
But on a happy note, I am ecstatic that a woman was chosen to run as VP.  I’m smiling ear to ear, because this weekend is also an extraordinary anniversary for me.  Today, my partner and I celebrate 33 years together.  It was on Labor Day Weekend that we first met and had dinner in college.  1975 was a year like no other.<br />
It was a time when there were no gay or lesbian groups at all, and women were harassed in classrooms, and feminism was gaining power.  Back then I was majoring in political science and working on some of the first campaigns women were running for congress and state attorney general.  I met them all and worked for them all.<br />
My partner and I carved out a life for ourselves without the help of anyone back then.  We dreamed of an Amazon world, we suffered the unbelivable sexism and homophobia that was routine back then.  We prevailed over all the odds, and guess what, without any legal support, social support or institutional support, we had a better “marriage” than most of the straight people out there.  Despite everything, we became our own creative dream team.<br />
We had faith that women would come together, we’d work so that our time would come.  Then after many years of taking care of my extremely sick partner, I came once again to the feminist blogs, and was shocked that they were dissing Hillary and supporting a god damn man for president!  What the hell happened out there?  Where have I been?  Rip van Winkle is what it felt like.  Feminists for goddess sake were backing men for high office–maybe not on this blog, but you know what I’m saying here.<br />
Dream team?  Beware – the team is about a male only team.  Conservative old fashioned aging McCain comes out of nowhere with this surprising pick.  Is Sarah Palin the prefect choice.  No absolutely not, but one thing I know as a woman, that once one woman gets into office others follow, both good, bad and average.  Feminists had a chance with Hillary, and she just wasn’t good enogh.<br />
Years ago my partner and I speculated that women would choose a conservative women for high office, like Margaret Thatcher.  Feminist women were too busy infighting to support and close the deal for even a liberal woman candidate.  The feminist movement made it possible for all women to run for office, both liberal and conservative.  We can take credit for opening all the doors, even if it hurts.  That is the irony of history.<br />
Now let’s see how Obama has to struggle for millions of women’s votes now.  Biden having to talk about women!  Even Chris evil Matthews the other day scolded Pat Buchannon for using the term “girl” and “gal” when referring to Gov. Palin.  Imagine that!</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/fa7d9b32c5d6eee.png" alt="Aletha Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Aletha</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18610</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/fa7d9b32c5d6eee.png" alt="Aletha Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Aletha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18610</guid>
		<description>I also highly recommended that Naomi Klein interview in my comment at the WCF blog, which to my surprise did get approved, but no responses. &lt;a href="http://womenandpolitics.org/?p=143#comment-41" rel="nofollow"&gt;Hilary Has Asked To Suspend the Role Call&lt;/a&gt; That blog is only ten days old and not especially active, so I will not read too much into that. There does seem to be some dissatisfaction with the Democratic ticket growing among mainstream women. That may be due to Obama passing over Senator Clinton for VP, or his big tent approach to abortion and other feminist issues. She seems to want to be part of the Obama bandwagon now, but many of her supporters seem less than enthusiastic. You have plenty of company in that regard, Satsuma. 

Former head of Planned Parenthood Gloria Feldt posted this on her blog and the WCF blog today: 

&lt;a href="http://www.gloriafeldt.com/heartfeldt-politics-blog/2008/8/29/does-palin-trump-biden.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;DOES PALIN TRUMP BIDEN?&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/us/politics/28text-obama.html?pagewanted=1&#38;_r=1" title="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/us/politics/28text-obama.html?pagewanted=1&#38;_r=1" rel="nofollow"&gt;Obama's speech&lt;/a&gt; was excellent, but not quite great, comforting if not moving. Strong on substance as it needed to be, yet not as strong on the rhetoric as he can be. I don't remember any of his specific lines, which is a  clue.  And though the warm-up &lt;a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/29/uselections2008.algore?gusrc=rss&#38;feed=worldnews" title="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/29/uselections2008.algore?gusrc=rss&#38;feed=worldnews" rel="nofollow"&gt;speeches by Al Gore&lt;/a&gt; and&lt;a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/politics/government/richard-durbin-PEPLT007474.topic" title="http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/politics/government/richard-durbin-PEPLT007474.topic" rel="nofollow"&gt; Dick Durbin&lt;/a&gt; touched on reproductive rights, Obama's spoke only in a downplayed, appeasing way about reproductive justice, even though he stood on the podium in a state with a pending ballot initiative that intends not just to outlaw abortion but to take down many kinds of birth control with it, granting fertilized eggs full personhood status while demoting women to second class citizenship:
What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose, and that's what we have to restore.
We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country.
The -- the reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than they are for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.
I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in a hospital and to live lives free of discrimination.
(I left in the gun control part to illustrate that women's rights to reproductive self-determination and gay rights get equated to just another policy issue that it's ok for people to disagree on. Would he say the same about civil rights based on ethnicity or religion? I think not. And pray tell, why didn't he mention his co-sponsorship of the &lt;a href="http://www.naral.org/issues/abortion/access-to-abortion/freedom-of-choice-act.html" title="http://www.naral.org/issues/abortion/access-to-abortion/freedom-of-choice-act.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Freedom of Choice Act?&lt;/a&gt;)
(End quote)

Good questions from a liberal feminist, I would say, though her reaction to that speech is overgenerous, in my estimation. It left me cold, as soaring oratory from male charmers generally does. In my comment, I alluded to Heart without naming her, inviting people to click on my name to find out who is that woman still running for President, not willing to take a back seat. Ordinarily I would not be so reticent, but I really did not expect my comment to be approved. That it was gives me some hope, that liberal feminists may have an open mind about an alternative to Obama/Biden. They may have been loyal Democrats forever, but that Hillary came so close with virtually nothing to show for it seems to leave a bad taste in their mouths.

I also note that the Gore challenge to end the use of carbon based fuels for electricity within ten years is far bolder than the Obama plan, to "finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East" in ten years. Obama is still stuck on clean coal, safe nuclear power, and the next generation of biofuels, meaning ethanol produced from plants genetically engineered for that purpose, though he has the political savvy not to trumpet that last dirty little secret. All of that is environmentally irresponsible, greenwashing hogwash. Even the Gore plan does not go far enough, though it is not a bad start. As I noted on my blog and the Randi Rhodes forum, clean coal and safe nuclear power? Uh huh. When pigs fly. BTW Ms. Rhodes had some choice words for Governor Palin today. She repeatedly referred to Ms. Palin as a chick or girl. That was bad enough, though she also frequently refers to herself as a chick or girl, but she also tossed in bitch and breeder. The sexism coming from Obama supporters is not confined to men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also highly recommended that Naomi Klein interview in my comment at the WCF blog, which to my surprise did get approved, but no responses. <a href="http://womenandpolitics.org/?p=143#comment-41" rel="nofollow">Hilary Has Asked To Suspend the Role Call</a> That blog is only ten days old and not especially active, so I will not read too much into that. There does seem to be some dissatisfaction with the Democratic ticket growing among mainstream women. That may be due to Obama passing over Senator Clinton for VP, or his big tent approach to abortion and other feminist issues. She seems to want to be part of the Obama bandwagon now, but many of her supporters seem less than enthusiastic. You have plenty of company in that regard, Satsuma. </p>
<p>Former head of Planned Parenthood Gloria Feldt posted this on her blog and the WCF blog today: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.gloriafeldt.com/heartfeldt-politics-blog/2008/8/29/does-palin-trump-biden.html" rel="nofollow">DOES PALIN TRUMP BIDEN?</a><br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/us/politics/28text-obama.html?pagewanted=1&amp;_r=1" title="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/us/politics/28text-obama.html?pagewanted=1&amp;_r=1" rel="nofollow">Obama&#8217;s speech</a> was excellent, but not quite great, comforting if not moving. Strong on substance as it needed to be, yet not as strong on the rhetoric as he can be. I don&#8217;t remember any of his specific lines, which is a  clue.  And though the warm-up <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/29/uselections2008.algore?gusrc=rss&amp;feed=worldnews" title="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/29/uselections2008.algore?gusrc=rss&amp;feed=worldnews" rel="nofollow">speeches by Al Gore</a> and<a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/politics/government/richard-durbin-PEPLT007474.topic" title="http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/politics/government/richard-durbin-PEPLT007474.topic" rel="nofollow"> Dick Durbin</a> touched on reproductive rights, Obama&#8217;s spoke only in a downplayed, appeasing way about reproductive justice, even though he stood on the podium in a state with a pending ballot initiative that intends not just to outlaw abortion but to take down many kinds of birth control with it, granting fertilized eggs full personhood status while demoting women to second class citizenship:<br />
What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose, and that&#8217;s what we have to restore.<br />
We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country.<br />
The &#8212; the reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than they are for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don&#8217;t tell me we can&#8217;t uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.<br />
I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in a hospital and to live lives free of discrimination.<br />
(I left in the gun control part to illustrate that women&#8217;s rights to reproductive self-determination and gay rights get equated to just another policy issue that it&#8217;s ok for people to disagree on. Would he say the same about civil rights based on ethnicity or religion? I think not. And pray tell, why didn&#8217;t he mention his co-sponsorship of the <a href="http://www.naral.org/issues/abortion/access-to-abortion/freedom-of-choice-act.html" title="http://www.naral.org/issues/abortion/access-to-abortion/freedom-of-choice-act.html" rel="nofollow">Freedom of Choice Act?</a>)<br />
(End quote)</p>
<p>Good questions from a liberal feminist, I would say, though her reaction to that speech is overgenerous, in my estimation. It left me cold, as soaring oratory from male charmers generally does. In my comment, I alluded to Heart without naming her, inviting people to click on my name to find out who is that woman still running for President, not willing to take a back seat. Ordinarily I would not be so reticent, but I really did not expect my comment to be approved. That it was gives me some hope, that liberal feminists may have an open mind about an alternative to Obama/Biden. They may have been loyal Democrats forever, but that Hillary came so close with virtually nothing to show for it seems to leave a bad taste in their mouths.</p>
<p>I also note that the Gore challenge to end the use of carbon based fuels for electricity within ten years is far bolder than the Obama plan, to &#8220;finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East&#8221; in ten years. Obama is still stuck on clean coal, safe nuclear power, and the next generation of biofuels, meaning ethanol produced from plants genetically engineered for that purpose, though he has the political savvy not to trumpet that last dirty little secret. All of that is environmentally irresponsible, greenwashing hogwash. Even the Gore plan does not go far enough, though it is not a bad start. As I noted on my blog and the Randi Rhodes forum, clean coal and safe nuclear power? Uh huh. When pigs fly. BTW Ms. Rhodes had some choice words for Governor Palin today. She repeatedly referred to Ms. Palin as a chick or girl. That was bad enough, though she also frequently refers to herself as a chick or girl, but she also tossed in bitch and breeder. The sexism coming from Obama supporters is not confined to men.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/f767d6db0e74dc1.png" alt="twitch Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> twitch</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18607</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/f767d6db0e74dc1.png" alt="twitch Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> twitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18607</guid>
		<description>Aletha,

Your link to Naomi Klein in your post #13 was very helpful.  The best description and analysis of why progressive issues get dropped during and certainly after campaigns are over.  I can't recommend this link highly enough to the other readers here.  Check it out!  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aletha,</p>
<p>Your link to Naomi Klein in your post #13 was very helpful.  The best description and analysis of why progressive issues get dropped during and certainly after campaigns are over.  I can&#8217;t recommend this link highly enough to the other readers here.  Check it out!  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/1822288b445fb8f.png" alt="Laur Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Laur</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18604</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/1822288b445fb8f.png" alt="Laur Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Laur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18604</guid>
		<description>Womyn, I agree with you; I'm so sick of hearing about this meaningless election.  An election, that it seems, so, so many people who want at least *some* sort of change believe will happen if Obama becomes Prez.

As far as I'm concerned, the elections are rigged. Which doesn't mean I won't vote, but I just don't want to put my energy into men's politics. Women did not create this system, women did not start wars, design nuclear explosives, ruin our planet, and on and on and on. Instead, we have to pick up after the men who have designed this system, while attempting and far too often succeeding in ruining us and our children in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Womyn, I agree with you; I&#8217;m so sick of hearing about this meaningless election.  An election, that it seems, so, so many people who want at least *some* sort of change believe will happen if Obama becomes Prez.</p>
<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned, the elections are rigged. Which doesn&#8217;t mean I won&#8217;t vote, but I just don&#8217;t want to put my energy into men&#8217;s politics. Women did not create this system, women did not start wars, design nuclear explosives, ruin our planet, and on and on and on. Instead, we have to pick up after the men who have designed this system, while attempting and far too often succeeding in ruining us and our children in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/be81c9f4a8d14f6.png" alt="Satsuma Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Satsuma</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18601</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/be81c9f4a8d14f6.png" alt="Satsuma Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Satsuma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18601</guid>
		<description>I believe the reason people don't seem interested in digging in, is that the Internet is kind of an artificial conversation space.  I don't meet many people who have much curiosity to dig through issues.  They seem to lead busy lives, but as to active sustained thought, I'm not so sure what is going on with people.

I personally don't see much difference in my life based on artificial politics.  The difference came when lesbians themselves organized their own groups, and that was the most meaningful experience to me.  But my experience in mixed groups never meant much to me.  There was no emotional connection, only a kind of detached feeling that I'm drowning is a sea of hetero realities, and often I experience this as utter boredom.  Even most women can really bore you with the constant chatter and the fear of confrontation and agrument.  Men bore in a different way.

In a lesbian world and society, I just find life interesting and complex, but that world is invisible to the larger world.

Obama or McCain?  Who knows.  I don't really believe either one of them.  Certainly I felt little to no connection to Obama's speech last night, and it amused me that the one thing he did say about gays and lesbians is that he thought it was fine that we could visit our partners in the hospital.  Big of him.  Interestingly enough, I had just heard Frank Pastori of "Intersection of Faith and Reason" a right wing christian political show, say that very same thing.  Big of him too.

No Aletha, people won't read a reasoned argument and comment thoughtfully very much anywhere these days.  Some of my best writing just is ignored or not understood at all.  I'm used to the hetero world completely ignoring my existence, welcome to the club :-)

I meet a lot of people, and they seem kind of zoned out.  Obama wants to up the ante in Afghanistan and McCain is still all for it in Iraq, but neither one seems anti-war to me.  The war certainly took a back seat last night.

Why would people vote for McCain and not Obama?  Maybe because Obama doesn't make much sense to them.  I know I feel this way.  I don't know what all the fuss is about him; he just seems like a south side Chicago politician to me, and I grew up near Chicago, so it has this odd familiarity to me.

McCain is like every straight man out there.  Militaristic, overly revering the armed services, clueless about women and lesbians.  Just floating out there.  No matter who is in the White House, my life changes very little.  Straight people in power are just another world, and to me it's just two guys with their doting wives yet again.  No big deal.

I guess I'm tired of the left going on and on about how every right wing idiot is a disaster.  The world is going to end etc.  But it isn't. We should be a lot farther along as a feminist movement, but we aren't.  We are mired in a sea of lieing men once again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the reason people don&#8217;t seem interested in digging in, is that the Internet is kind of an artificial conversation space.  I don&#8217;t meet many people who have much curiosity to dig through issues.  They seem to lead busy lives, but as to active sustained thought, I&#8217;m not so sure what is going on with people.</p>
<p>I personally don&#8217;t see much difference in my life based on artificial politics.  The difference came when lesbians themselves organized their own groups, and that was the most meaningful experience to me.  But my experience in mixed groups never meant much to me.  There was no emotional connection, only a kind of detached feeling that I&#8217;m drowning is a sea of hetero realities, and often I experience this as utter boredom.  Even most women can really bore you with the constant chatter and the fear of confrontation and agrument.  Men bore in a different way.</p>
<p>In a lesbian world and society, I just find life interesting and complex, but that world is invisible to the larger world.</p>
<p>Obama or McCain?  Who knows.  I don&#8217;t really believe either one of them.  Certainly I felt little to no connection to Obama&#8217;s speech last night, and it amused me that the one thing he did say about gays and lesbians is that he thought it was fine that we could visit our partners in the hospital.  Big of him.  Interestingly enough, I had just heard Frank Pastori of &#8220;Intersection of Faith and Reason&#8221; a right wing christian political show, say that very same thing.  Big of him too.</p>
<p>No Aletha, people won&#8217;t read a reasoned argument and comment thoughtfully very much anywhere these days.  Some of my best writing just is ignored or not understood at all.  I&#8217;m used to the hetero world completely ignoring my existence, welcome to the club <img src='http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I meet a lot of people, and they seem kind of zoned out.  Obama wants to up the ante in Afghanistan and McCain is still all for it in Iraq, but neither one seems anti-war to me.  The war certainly took a back seat last night.</p>
<p>Why would people vote for McCain and not Obama?  Maybe because Obama doesn&#8217;t make much sense to them.  I know I feel this way.  I don&#8217;t know what all the fuss is about him; he just seems like a south side Chicago politician to me, and I grew up near Chicago, so it has this odd familiarity to me.</p>
<p>McCain is like every straight man out there.  Militaristic, overly revering the armed services, clueless about women and lesbians.  Just floating out there.  No matter who is in the White House, my life changes very little.  Straight people in power are just another world, and to me it&#8217;s just two guys with their doting wives yet again.  No big deal.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m tired of the left going on and on about how every right wing idiot is a disaster.  The world is going to end etc.  But it isn&#8217;t. We should be a lot farther along as a feminist movement, but we aren&#8217;t.  We are mired in a sea of lieing men once again.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/fa7d9b32c5d6eee.png" alt="Aletha Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Aletha</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18595</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/fa7d9b32c5d6eee.png" alt="Aletha Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Aletha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18595</guid>
		<description>I think many people who might otherwise be inclined to really dig into political issues are so disillusioned and turned off by the big spin machines running politics, it may seem quixotic or too painful to get involved in discussion of complex issues, unless it hits really close to home. Who knows. I have rather low expectations of that Randi Rhodes forum. There are a few thinkers there, many heated discussions, but little depth. One thread I started did go deep, a discussion of my &lt;a href="http://freesoil.org/wordpress/?p=278" rel="nofollow"&gt;What This Feminist Revolution Could Accomplish&lt;/a&gt; lasting almost a month, but that was before Air America confiscated that board.

I am wondering how long it will take before the Women's Campaign Forum decides to ban me from its blog. I made a brief comment there last night that was approved, protesting that women are expected to play second fiddle once again. Snarky Sue took off on that, so I tried a longer comment to elaborate on what I meant. If that makes it through moderation, I will be amazed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think many people who might otherwise be inclined to really dig into political issues are so disillusioned and turned off by the big spin machines running politics, it may seem quixotic or too painful to get involved in discussion of complex issues, unless it hits really close to home. Who knows. I have rather low expectations of that Randi Rhodes forum. There are a few thinkers there, many heated discussions, but little depth. One thread I started did go deep, a discussion of my <a href="http://freesoil.org/wordpress/?p=278" rel="nofollow">What This Feminist Revolution Could Accomplish</a> lasting almost a month, but that was before Air America confiscated that board.</p>
<p>I am wondering how long it will take before the Women&#8217;s Campaign Forum decides to ban me from its blog. I made a brief comment there last night that was approved, protesting that women are expected to play second fiddle once again. Snarky Sue took off on that, so I tried a longer comment to elaborate on what I meant. If that makes it through moderation, I will be amazed.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/be81c9f4a8d14f6.png" alt="Satsuma Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Satsuma</title>
		<link>http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/08/25/2008-presidential-election-had-enough/#comment-18593</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/wp-content/plugins/identicon/be81c9f4a8d14f6.png" alt="Satsuma Identicon Icon" height="25" width="25" /> Satsuma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/?p=1943#comment-18593</guid>
		<description>I can't speak for other people Heart, but I've always been interested in all kinds of political issues, and continue to read on all subjects.  I don't know why political discussions with people seem so out of it these days, but I'll tell you, I rarely meet people who read ANYTHING in depth.  There seems to be no desire to find out what is really going on with the war, for example.

More later....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t speak for other people Heart, but I&#8217;ve always been interested in all kinds of political issues, and continue to read on all subjects.  I don&#8217;t know why political discussions with people seem so out of it these days, but I&#8217;ll tell you, I rarely meet people who read ANYTHING in depth.  There seems to be no desire to find out what is really going on with the war, for example.</p>
<p>More later&#8230;.</p>
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